what is their card game at the end, ron? >> it's kind of a crisis capitalism in a way or crisis governance. they create an emergency by going over the fiscal cliff, and then they say because we have this big emergency, we need to do drastic things to defund mostly the domestic side of government, turn it over to private industry. whether it's health care or anything else. that's their aim. it's to drown the government in their bathtub as grover norquist famously said. >> i know. that sounds like the late senator moynihan, that the idea of supply side was basically to get rid of so much revenue the government had such big deficits that even liberals couldn't call for new programs. dana, your thoughts on that? >> that would be well and good except they're also getting all the taxes to go up at the same time, so they're not achieving anything by that. the republicans realize they lose politically if we go over the fiscal cliff, but this isn't just a political thing. the country loses economically if we go over it and then every